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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41865

As I was driving the engine stopped and I coasted to a stop. A garage was near and a kind man towed me there. We looked and the fuel pump was working, electric with its feed from the coil. The in line filter was full of fuel. The recovery mechanic could find no spark. We sprayed easy start down the carburetor. At home I fitted a new coil, still no start. It has a fairly recent fiat electronic ignition.
Any ideas would be welcomed.

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41866

  • NRG
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OK things to check if you've not already done so....

12v to coil and ignition module?
Centre contact of distributor cap in place?
If resistive rotor arm fitted is it open circuit?
Check all connections to ignition module, coil and the distributor pickup

If all above is ok then the ignition module could have failed or the pickup in the distributor...

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41867

  • Geoffrey Foster
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Dear David,

First check is 12 volts to the ignition module / coil , if you do not have a voltmeter then a side light bulb on leads will do. If no volts there then check for volts at fuse A, if no volts there then it could be the ignition switch.

Two cautions:

The old test of a spark to engine from the coil can damage electronic ignitions.
Modern electronic ignitions will shut themselves down after a short time to prevent damage to the coil or coil pack.

What part of the country are you in? I am in Stratford-upon-Avon and my car is a 1981. Let me know if I can help.

Best wishes,

Geoffrey.

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41868

I am in Cornwall. Thank you both for your ideas and help. i think i have tried all those things but who knows. The electric fuel pump gets its power from the coil connection and is working when the ignition is on I have just checked nearly all the fuel lines and jets. The in line fuel filter is nearly full which is unusual. there was fuel in the little filter in the Carburettor. I have re made the live feed to the coil which was poor.
My poor head. i thought I was capable. I have the old mechanical distributor which i could try but the call out mechanic thought there was no spark from the coil itself.

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41869

So nothing when he used dampstart? Then take a plug out (quicker to use any ol plug lying about and connect one of the plug leads to it and lay it on a bit of the body (can use tape to hold it down). Crank & look for a spark, dark lighting at this time of year helps.
No spark then need to suspect the coil or your electronic ignition part.
If you have a meter check the coil resistance - should be around 3ohms between the low voltage terminals of the coil.
A bulb can be used too - chassis one side and the feed side just to establish bulb and 12volts ok - if so then bulb to chassis still and the other wire to the coil -ve (electronic ignition / tacho take off) , should see the bulb on then crank and it should flash quickly: if so then coil primary and elect ign module should be ok and suspect the high voltage side - HT leads, dizzy cap, rotor arm etc. May be an idea to take all the HT leads & cap off, wash in hot soapy water and dry overnight then look at it all very carefully.

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41870

Sorry, forgot to address the high voltage part of the coil, its resistance between the HT connection and the body is going to be in the order of 25,000 to 30,000ohms. If you don't have any test meters (they are only £10 to £30) and can't borrow one then it may be a new coil I guess.

Could always try sticking your tongue in the top of the coil to see if you can taste the 25 thousand volts...... err NO on second thoughts that may be dangerous!, your tie could get caught in the water pump drive belt and ...... (sorry that one was as sensible as Donald's bleach drinking suggestion!)

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41872

I have checked nearly everything hoping its not the distributor. the car was driving fine until it died out on the road.
Obviously i tried the high tension by standing in a bucket of water and licking my finger before sticking it here and there. not a tingle.
I thought electronic ignition would be the bee's knees.

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41873

Ha Ha very good David!
So.... Coil, or did you say electronic dizzy? or is it a Lumenition module (I fitted that on my car)

If it is an electronic dizzy with no separate module then guess apart from closely checking the wires from it being in good condition (there may be from the dizzy? 3 wires - ground, +12v and the output to the coil and tacho)
not sure how easy they would be to check, maybe on the connector to the dizzy.
If your coil checks out then that electronic dizzy looks guilty but I have no direct experience of them so best checking elsewhere for another opinion. If you have the Lumenition then get back to me again.

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41876

  • Geoffrey Foster
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Dear David,

If you have not fixed it yet may I offer some more suggestions:

Has the car ever been fitted with an anti theft system or immobiliser even if not in use?

"The in line fuel filter is nearly full which is unusual." I would expect the fuel filter to be full when the engine is running or has been recently. As you can hear the pump running you could remove the fuel line from the pump / filter to the carburettor at the carb end and put it into a bottle to see if petrol comes out, some pumps have an internal filter.

If someone else has worked on the car could they have swopped over the fuel in and return pipes at the carb?

"I have the old mechanical distributor which i could try" So what is there now? Is there a rotor arm? If so put the car in gear and push it along to see if the rotor arm turns. Sometime the drive to the distributor can shear, at least they did on the old Essex V6.

If you want to talk the problem over the I can PM you a telephone number.

Best wishes, Geoffrey.
The following user(s) said Thank You: David Moult

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41877

Today I tried a new coil from Claire. No change so i think it is the ignition module on the Marelli distributor. I have sent to Texas for a new one. i will have lots of spares. The thing is i could have put the original points distributor back but it runs so much better with the electronic. I am thinking that it may be possible to mount the ignition module remotley to keep it cool. Also i will look inside the old module to see if it is repairable. Mofsets can overheat and stop, i don't know if it has mofsets but i will look.

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41878

Wise idea on locating the electronic module in a safer location.
I removed the black cover from the RHS next to the engine bay and mounted my Lumenition module on
a 4mm aluminum plate, thought that would be a effective heatsink. Also that little void is removed from the direct engine bay heat. I used at least one of the coil mounting holes to pick up for the spacers, the coil is still located on the other side of that body panel.

Another thought, if you grounded the coil -ve with the ign key on, you should get a spark. Also of course on the plugs - subject to the dizzy pointing to that correct plug. So that is taking over from the job the points or ign module should be doing.
Enjoy
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The following user(s) said Thank You: David Moult

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Car failed to proceed 2 months 2 weeks ago #41881

Well thank you everyone for your help. I hope the new distributor will fix the problem. There is fuel, I checked the float bowl and accelerator pump. All in all the ignition and fuel system has had a good going over and service.
At least its not summer and the drive home on the top of the recovery lorry made me feel like the Carnival Queen of Cornwall.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alan Hutton, Richard Garnett

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